100% this. We briefly lived in the US and both my husband and I have predominantly US clients. The insane lack of work-life balance is something we've never been able to get our heads around. In the UK people will ask about your job out of politeness rather than to gauge your success, but in Spain? No one cares. I love it - if only so I don't have to try to explain my weird career choice over and over 😆
Yes I also work with EU & US clients and I notice the difference from that perspective too...US clients are always online. And EU clients seem to have OoO emails much more than the US ones lol.
Thanks for sharing this perspective, I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of "breaking the normal rhythms". My post was not meant to say "leave the country" as the only solution, just food for thought about pushing beyond the limits of what we might not realize we've contained ourselves to. Being open to exploring and experimenting new ways of being. Appreciate this concrete list you've shared of great practices, wherever you are! ;)
I agree with the comments here so far. Great story and insights.
"(in part because it’s so much easier to meet up with someone when it’s a 10-minute walk instead of a 30-minute drive)."
This is such a key element. But it doesn't describe why America is the way it is. We are who we are, then we throw everything else out the window in service of that insanity rendering our quality of life nill. Because quality of life isn't about status and possessions, it's about welcoming, safe, vibrant and convivial public and public/private environments.
Absolutely, the public spaces & walkability piece is essential to quality of life. It's great that you got to experience parts of that when it was true in California.
Agree. It's very common to know someone for a long time without knowing their job. This is especially true with children's parents. I have no idea what many of my son's friend's parents do and he's been with the same group for 3 years. It's definitely a plus.
However, here in Catalonia, there is an obsession with languages. I became frustrated with explaining why I didn't speak Castellano or Catalan very well. It was saddening because I had traveled the world and had tons of hobbies and passions, but nobody wanted to know me until I spoke more languages- even though they spoke English.
Love to hear from the parent perspective here as I do hope to someday have a family here too. It definitely seems like this 'career isn't important' trend is true across all social groups and cities in Spain.
I've also heard this about Catalonia being very concerned with others speaking Catalan...I've only been once to Barcelona actually but I remember despite speaking Spanish at a decent level at the time of my trip that everyone responded to me in English. It was a bit discouraging. I see from your comments below you've committed to learning both Catalan and Castellano though, props to you & ánimo! :)
Yes, there is some politics around speaking Catalan, but having any second or third language is important in this region. Many people speak Catalan and English but don't speak Spanish for political reasons. However, if you were just visiting, the people you encountered either were told to switch to English by their managers or just wanted to practice their English- lol!
As far as my language abilities go, I would be happy to hit a B2 and an A2, but it would be wonderful to have higher levels in time!
This is true in Paris as well; they’ll just speak to you in English when it’s obvious you are an English speaker. In suspect it’s a worldwide habit in any large city that gets a lot of English speaking tourists.
I find this a struggle as well. I moved to Catalonia last year and still have predominately expats for friends, and most of them are working like Americans, so we don't see one another too often, although my social life is still at least 10x greater than it was in the states.
I am less lonely here, but compared to what Spanish norms are, I remain highly isolated. Are you working on the language struggle?
Bon Dia! Yes, I work at my Castellano and Catalan language every day. Aside from books, videos, and courses, I use an AI app to practice. I’m definitely a person who loves to be alone, so I don’t feel lonely- and I talk to people all day for my job. But, when my son was little it was tough. Are you in Barcelona or somewhere else? I’ll check out your Substack.
Good on you for your diligence. I have been taking a Spanish class through EOI, but it is not enough. Now that we've overcome the brain fatigue of learning how to live in a new country, I need to recommit to the language and intentionally expand my exposure.
Hello, ladies! :) Jumping in your conversation here (in a purely Spanish-fashion: Hola! Qué tal?) to say I also live in a Barcelona suburb, and that it would be great to organize a Substackers' meeting one day.
I wrote about some great resources in my latest Substack. I can highly recommend Talk Pal AI and the Daily Catalan website. I just did the 30-day Catalan Challenge. It's a great online course that will familiarize you with some basic Catalan phrases and conversations.
Yes, she does promotions all the time, so I paid 97 euros. Definitely worth it as the information is very helpful and we have unlimited access. I believe there were 2 zoom group calls as well and a telegram group. As well, Julia was wonderful at answering questions.
I also live in Barcelona and I agree that locals from Catalonia are a bit obsessed with finding out if you have learned their language (understandably). So it is an ice-breaker, albeit an icy cold one. :)
In my experience, there is also another favorite question most people start with, and that is: where are you from? Perhaps because Barcelona is so international, but it does become a bit tiring, at least for me. The topic of work life, then, takes 3rd place or lower. :)
I hear you when you say it can get a bit tiring to get asked where you are from - on the other hand I see this question as an easy ice-breaker-conversation starter...Especially when moving to a new country, trying to meet people and find friends...this can be an easy opener...with tons of follow up questions
Hi Claudia, it's definitely a useful question in some contexts, of course. It's all about the intent with which one asks it. If it's to find common ground or as an ice-breaker, it can be enriching. But in my experience, it's also being used to discriminate. Such as when you are asked this as first question in a job interview or by a property rental agent...
I lived in DC to go to grad school and was overwhelmed by how central work was to every conversation, even at a party on a weekend. I really appreciate your exploration of this aspect of American life. Cheers to embracing a full, well-rounded life no matter where you live!
Thanks for your comment I'm so glad it resonated, just saw you wrote about Sevilla and am going to dive into that now. Absolutely echo the cheers to a full, well-rounded life. :)
I definitely agree with this. Even when I moved to San Diego no one ever asked me about my job. I didn’t even think some of my friends had jobs 😂😂😂 I am working on shedding this identity too as I started my sabbatical this week. Let’s see how it goes!
I have loved this aspect of Spanish life, even though not working as I have been (due to language barriers, time zone shifts, and the increasing moving earth that underlies any good mid-life crisis) has been very disruptive to my sense of worth and self-esteem. My cultural upbringing strongly associates one's ability to make money with one's worthiness as a human being, and it has been a lifelong struggle to disentangle myself from that but I now live in an environment more supportive of the idea.
Yess, it's so perfect that you're in possibly one of the best environments to be going through that experience! All the awarenesses you shared are such an important piece of moving through it too.
what a great read. I know Spaniards are laiid back, but i still find it super interesting the huge gap in this cultural element. I appreciate valuing higher the balance of living life and understanding who you are versus what you do, but to never talk about what you do, thats wild! I'm happy not talking about what I do, but having it as a baseline conversation in the US with my neighbors, kids friends parents, etc. is so normal. Love how you called this out! so fascinating, nice work.
Thanks for sharing Kristen, it's always good to hear experiences from the US perspective. It has been so long since I've actually lived there that I appreciate hearing current viewpoints!
You are welcome! I couldn’t imagine not knowing my neighbors who we hang out with all the time are a nurse and a vice principal. But my neighbors I only make small conversations with, it makes sense I don’t know their jobs.
"People tended to judge my success based on my job. Since I worked at a popular startup and made good money for my age, I was successful in the context of the California backdrop I was living in."
As the only one in our social circle that wears a uniform to work, I'm regarded more as a curiosity than anything else. It's maddening enough that I've (more or less) stopped going to any functions. Spain sounds like exactly what I need.
There is so much to unpack in this article. Your work is timely. I was getting ready to write about socializing in the USA, and what it exactly entails. After reading this you took (away) some of the fuel igniting my fire on the subject.
"Are you still working at the museum? How do you like it? Is the money good? What's your schedule like..." an acquainted nosy neighbor.
"Is she still working? How does she like her job?" asks my brother-in-law to my husband.
"Do you work? What do you do? Is there good money in that?" ... random questions from a chance encounter at the park while hiking.
The above questions were asked ALL in the past THREE days!
Does ANYONE care about anything except work and money in the US?
I hate that question, "what do you do?" because it's so reductive. It doesn't tell you anything about that person really. And it's used as a filter to find out quickly whether you're worth talking to or not (stupidly!)
100% this. We briefly lived in the US and both my husband and I have predominantly US clients. The insane lack of work-life balance is something we've never been able to get our heads around. In the UK people will ask about your job out of politeness rather than to gauge your success, but in Spain? No one cares. I love it - if only so I don't have to try to explain my weird career choice over and over 😆
Yes I also work with EU & US clients and I notice the difference from that perspective too...US clients are always online. And EU clients seem to have OoO emails much more than the US ones lol.
Love it!
When I was on a sabbatical, about to start a new company, but started to think that path didn’t feel right… a mentor-ish figure said to me:
“Leave the country.”
We didn’t, for family reasons, but the point remained: “get out of the normal rhythms of your life.”
So instead of moving abroad I went through a process I called: “going dark”:
- cut off all work meetings and calls
- unsubscribe from work related newsletters and avoid work reading
- avoid social media
- focused on non-work parts of my life: family, friends, health, fun, internal reflection
If leaving the country is not possible for some folks, this approach may help to open perspectives.
Thanks for sharing this perspective, I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of "breaking the normal rhythms". My post was not meant to say "leave the country" as the only solution, just food for thought about pushing beyond the limits of what we might not realize we've contained ourselves to. Being open to exploring and experimenting new ways of being. Appreciate this concrete list you've shared of great practices, wherever you are! ;)
100% agreed. Thanks for sharing your story and perspective!
I agree with the comments here so far. Great story and insights.
"(in part because it’s so much easier to meet up with someone when it’s a 10-minute walk instead of a 30-minute drive)."
This is such a key element. But it doesn't describe why America is the way it is. We are who we are, then we throw everything else out the window in service of that insanity rendering our quality of life nill. Because quality of life isn't about status and possessions, it's about welcoming, safe, vibrant and convivial public and public/private environments.
Absolutely, the public spaces & walkability piece is essential to quality of life. It's great that you got to experience parts of that when it was true in California.
Agree. It's very common to know someone for a long time without knowing their job. This is especially true with children's parents. I have no idea what many of my son's friend's parents do and he's been with the same group for 3 years. It's definitely a plus.
However, here in Catalonia, there is an obsession with languages. I became frustrated with explaining why I didn't speak Castellano or Catalan very well. It was saddening because I had traveled the world and had tons of hobbies and passions, but nobody wanted to know me until I spoke more languages- even though they spoke English.
Love to hear from the parent perspective here as I do hope to someday have a family here too. It definitely seems like this 'career isn't important' trend is true across all social groups and cities in Spain.
I've also heard this about Catalonia being very concerned with others speaking Catalan...I've only been once to Barcelona actually but I remember despite speaking Spanish at a decent level at the time of my trip that everyone responded to me in English. It was a bit discouraging. I see from your comments below you've committed to learning both Catalan and Castellano though, props to you & ánimo! :)
Yes, there is some politics around speaking Catalan, but having any second or third language is important in this region. Many people speak Catalan and English but don't speak Spanish for political reasons. However, if you were just visiting, the people you encountered either were told to switch to English by their managers or just wanted to practice their English- lol!
As far as my language abilities go, I would be happy to hit a B2 and an A2, but it would be wonderful to have higher levels in time!
This is true in Paris as well; they’ll just speak to you in English when it’s obvious you are an English speaker. In suspect it’s a worldwide habit in any large city that gets a lot of English speaking tourists.
I find this a struggle as well. I moved to Catalonia last year and still have predominately expats for friends, and most of them are working like Americans, so we don't see one another too often, although my social life is still at least 10x greater than it was in the states.
I am less lonely here, but compared to what Spanish norms are, I remain highly isolated. Are you working on the language struggle?
Bon Dia! Yes, I work at my Castellano and Catalan language every day. Aside from books, videos, and courses, I use an AI app to practice. I’m definitely a person who loves to be alone, so I don’t feel lonely- and I talk to people all day for my job. But, when my son was little it was tough. Are you in Barcelona or somewhere else? I’ll check out your Substack.
I'm just north of you in Girona!
Good on you for your diligence. I have been taking a Spanish class through EOI, but it is not enough. Now that we've overcome the brain fatigue of learning how to live in a new country, I need to recommit to the language and intentionally expand my exposure.
Hello, ladies! :) Jumping in your conversation here (in a purely Spanish-fashion: Hola! Qué tal?) to say I also live in a Barcelona suburb, and that it would be great to organize a Substackers' meeting one day.
OMG, let’s do this!!! Perhaps after summer travels, as I imagine we are all going somewhere at least once through the end of August
Yes, September works for me!
Yes! That sounds like fun!
I wrote about some great resources in my latest Substack. I can highly recommend Talk Pal AI and the Daily Catalan website. I just did the 30-day Catalan Challenge. It's a great online course that will familiarize you with some basic Catalan phrases and conversations.
I do follow Daily Catalán on IG. She’s fantastic. Was her 30 day challenge a paid program?
Yes, she does promotions all the time, so I paid 97 euros. Definitely worth it as the information is very helpful and we have unlimited access. I believe there were 2 zoom group calls as well and a telegram group. As well, Julia was wonderful at answering questions.
I also live in Barcelona and I agree that locals from Catalonia are a bit obsessed with finding out if you have learned their language (understandably). So it is an ice-breaker, albeit an icy cold one. :)
In my experience, there is also another favorite question most people start with, and that is: where are you from? Perhaps because Barcelona is so international, but it does become a bit tiring, at least for me. The topic of work life, then, takes 3rd place or lower. :)
I hear you when you say it can get a bit tiring to get asked where you are from - on the other hand I see this question as an easy ice-breaker-conversation starter...Especially when moving to a new country, trying to meet people and find friends...this can be an easy opener...with tons of follow up questions
Hi Claudia, it's definitely a useful question in some contexts, of course. It's all about the intent with which one asks it. If it's to find common ground or as an ice-breaker, it can be enriching. But in my experience, it's also being used to discriminate. Such as when you are asked this as first question in a job interview or by a property rental agent...
I see! I didn't have that experience with the job/rental prop -- So here I can totally see your point.
Interesting.
I lived in DC to go to grad school and was overwhelmed by how central work was to every conversation, even at a party on a weekend. I really appreciate your exploration of this aspect of American life. Cheers to embracing a full, well-rounded life no matter where you live!
Thanks for your comment I'm so glad it resonated, just saw you wrote about Sevilla and am going to dive into that now. Absolutely echo the cheers to a full, well-rounded life. :)
I definitely agree with this. Even when I moved to San Diego no one ever asked me about my job. I didn’t even think some of my friends had jobs 😂😂😂 I am working on shedding this identity too as I started my sabbatical this week. Let’s see how it goes!
Ah so exciting! What a fun chapter. Cheers to your sabbatical and I'm looking forward to following along. :)
I have loved this aspect of Spanish life, even though not working as I have been (due to language barriers, time zone shifts, and the increasing moving earth that underlies any good mid-life crisis) has been very disruptive to my sense of worth and self-esteem. My cultural upbringing strongly associates one's ability to make money with one's worthiness as a human being, and it has been a lifelong struggle to disentangle myself from that but I now live in an environment more supportive of the idea.
Yess, it's so perfect that you're in possibly one of the best environments to be going through that experience! All the awarenesses you shared are such an important piece of moving through it too.
what a great read. I know Spaniards are laiid back, but i still find it super interesting the huge gap in this cultural element. I appreciate valuing higher the balance of living life and understanding who you are versus what you do, but to never talk about what you do, thats wild! I'm happy not talking about what I do, but having it as a baseline conversation in the US with my neighbors, kids friends parents, etc. is so normal. Love how you called this out! so fascinating, nice work.
Thanks for sharing Kristen, it's always good to hear experiences from the US perspective. It has been so long since I've actually lived there that I appreciate hearing current viewpoints!
You are welcome! I couldn’t imagine not knowing my neighbors who we hang out with all the time are a nurse and a vice principal. But my neighbors I only make small conversations with, it makes sense I don’t know their jobs.
"People tended to judge my success based on my job. Since I worked at a popular startup and made good money for my age, I was successful in the context of the California backdrop I was living in."
As the only one in our social circle that wears a uniform to work, I'm regarded more as a curiosity than anything else. It's maddening enough that I've (more or less) stopped going to any functions. Spain sounds like exactly what I need.
There is so much to unpack in this article. Your work is timely. I was getting ready to write about socializing in the USA, and what it exactly entails. After reading this you took (away) some of the fuel igniting my fire on the subject.
"Are you still working at the museum? How do you like it? Is the money good? What's your schedule like..." an acquainted nosy neighbor.
"Is she still working? How does she like her job?" asks my brother-in-law to my husband.
"Do you work? What do you do? Is there good money in that?" ... random questions from a chance encounter at the park while hiking.
The above questions were asked ALL in the past THREE days!
Does ANYONE care about anything except work and money in the US?
Unsolicited opinion: I think not.
Ohh excited to read what you write about it! And lol'd at the "is there good money in that" line.
You definitely inspired me to do so. It's such a touchy subject with me.
I hate that question, "what do you do?" because it's so reductive. It doesn't tell you anything about that person really. And it's used as a filter to find out quickly whether you're worth talking to or not (stupidly!)
I did the same thing you did, and it helped me tremendously. I'm still planning on moving out of the country, though.